The Mental Gymnastics of a Trump Supporter

The Mental Gymnastics of a Trump Supporter


So a couple of interesting Reddit threads
from the David Pakman show subreddit that I spotted this morning. Of course, the David
Pakman show subreddit, the biggest David Pakman show, audience discussion forum on the [email protected]
slash Reddit currently 15,600 plus of our viewers regularly participating in discussions
and commentary there. Um, I saw a post about a conversation that one of our viewers had
with a Trump supporting friend who says, the amount of mental gymnastics these people do
is unreal. This guy is a Navy veteran and our viewer,
uh, said to his Navy veteran friend, how do you feel about your boy Trump pleading guilty
to stealing money meant for veterans to fund his campaign? And our viewers, Navy veteran
friends said, Oh my, it’s all one pocket. They steal my social security money all the
time. So I’m used to it. LOL. Yeah. That, that is, um, an example of, uh, it’s moving
the goalposts and it is sort of both sides ism in a, in a different form, which is, Oh,
listen, Trump acutely, uh, defrauding people through a charity that sort of like the government
take social security money or this or that. Or I’m paying into a system that I might,
uh, not get money back out of, which of course does not actually appear to be true. They
are mental gymnastics. But this is a great example of how can you argue with that, right? How can you argue with someone who will always
find a reason to say no? It’s actually not what you think. And it’s not Trump’s fault
in my support of him is not inconsistent or hypocritical in some way. I say don’t bother.
And we saw earlier this week the video of CNN interviewing six uneducated white women,
so to speak, as as they are effectively in terms of the demographic group. And you saw
that, uh, you know, it doesn’t matter what facts you present. Some of them will talk
around it if that’s what they want to do. And that’s why we just need to focus on, get
out the vote. We need to focus on just getting people who already agree with us to go out
and cast a ballot because you’re not going to convince people like that. Or at least
if you do, the amount of time it’ll require, will not lead to an effective, uh, a strategy
for winning an election. Also from the David Pakman show, the subreddit,
this is really interesting. I saw the title and the title is I’m becoming radicalized
by the right and then the viewer goes on to say, now the title isn’t what you think at
first. The rights actions and own radicalization has made me a liberal, more radicalized in
my opinion of them. As they become more radicalized, I have doubled down almost like a radicalization
death spiral. Another way to put it, I’ve seen them more be more of a threat and a menace
than fellow countrymen. It’s to the point where I see them as inferior, closer to evil
and primal than civilized humans. Everything they stand for, I see as a threat. And I’m
not sure what the answer is. In what to do about it. This is very interesting because
we often talk about radicalization that takes place, which makes, uh, w w which can take
somebody who is for example, on the left and pull them to the extreme. Right. And I’ve heard from your viewers who
tell me, David, I used to be moderate or on the left and the internet echo chambers and
algorithms radicalized me to the right. This is something different, but it’s arguably
also problematic, which is someone on the left sees the right becoming more and more
extreme and it makes them double down on their own beliefs such that they start to see the
other side as something less than human as this viewer is saying it’s ugly. But I don’t
think this is as rare as maybe we might think. A really interesting perspective and I encourage
you to participate in the discussion on our subreddit. I’m there on a regular basis. Producer
Pat is there, producer max is there. Uh, I’m not sure Noah’s spending too much time on
the subreddit, but Hey, that’s okay. He’s got a busy, uh, he’s got other tasks that
he’s working on. A David pakman.com/reddit. R E D. D. it.

100 thoughts on “The Mental Gymnastics of a Trump Supporter

  1. Sorry David I see things differently, I always argue with these people. I don't argue with someone to change their mind, I argue with them to convince anyone listening to the debate of the fallacies, irrationality and contradictions of their arguments.

  2. I’m starting to end up in the same place as the second person you mentioned here. While I’ve been as radical left as you can get politically for a long time (I’m an anarchist), I have gone from seeing people who “oppose mainstream politics” on the right (a group seemingly made up almost entirely of libertarians prior to 2015) as simply being people who had interesting points on foreign policy, civil liberties, and government overreach, but were wrong on economics and we could respectfully disagree, to noting that, since then, a not insignificant pipeline has dragged a lot of those folks into Trumpism, and I can’t help but see these folks as troglodytes.

    That said, I feel like I’m a pretty good judge of character and the majority of my libertarian friends from the pre-Trump era are still libertarians but also very anti-Trump, but I definitely saw the folks peripheral to that get swept into the madness.

    I’ve also seen my father — who supported Bush, won’t renege on having supported the Iraq war, and has simply been a lifelong republican — go down the Trump rabbit-hole and largely bring my mom with him (she’s generally a republican as well, but she’s open to what I have to say and I convinced her to vote for Gary Johnson instead at the last minute in 2016. That said, she’s coming around to the ideas of M4A and GND).

    All in all I think that, if we think closely about the people who were susceptible to the Trump train and who of those people can potentially be “won back” or at least deradicalized, it’s pretty predictable who they were/are, regardless of ideology. My dad does occasionally surprise me (he’s pro-choice, anti-police brutality/has taken note of many police murders, recognizes some of the legitimate problems of corporations corrupting our politics, etc.), but ultimately he’s too far gone. My mom is really hard to talk to about this stuff because she is so malleable and isn’t much of an independent thinker, but with some work, despite people close to her (not just my dad, but also a friend of her mom who lived during her early adulthood in Soviet Hungary) pushing a narrative against single payer healthcare, it seems a friend of mine and I have gotten her to recognize how important that is. As for the libertarians I knew, I ran in circles prior to 2015 where a number of libertarians I still talk to and respect came from, but I would see occasional appearances from Chris Cantwell and people speaking favorably of Stefan Molyneux back when they identified as anarchists and it was apparent back then that they were racist pieces of shit, even though they only discussed race on the periphery back then.

  3. Hey David, you mentioned something about only talking to people you already agree with to convince them to vote or something. I understand what you meant, but I wish you would also state that we shouldn’t stop trying to have these conversations, no matter the bad experiences we’ve had. Tim Pool recommended I come to your channel in order to get various perspectives on things, and I did because I believe the main cause of polarization and echo chambers is many many people’s unwillingness to look at something from an opposing view and actually consider there may be truth to it. People who say dumb things like this do so because they don’t have real conversations with the other side, and the last thing we want to do is become one of them

  4. Rightwing morons love calling everyone who’s not a misogynist, racist, uneducated p.o.s. like themselves ‘cucks’ – and yet the only ‘cucks’ here are the fools who are not billionaires themselves, but continue to support Trump and the billionaire party even as they see their family’s healthcare schemes being taken away, the billionaire class getting yet more unneeded tax breaks, while everyone else takes it in the ass as a matter of economic policy. Impotent rage is a helluva drug.

  5. When are you brainwashed folks going to get it through your empty heads that left/right, Rep/Dem, liberal/conservative, etc are all just spoon fed, propaganda driven, false dichotomies that are all part of the Hegelian Dialectic used to control your minds and keep you enslaved?

    Point out your "righteous side" below and TRY explaining how your supposed "righteous version" of tyranny and slavery is any different from or superior to the "evil other side's" version of tyranny and slavery when you BOTH DO THE SAME DAMNED THINGS FOR THE SAME DAMNED REASONS and it all ends with you idiots enslaving yourselves and putting guns in people's faces as you force everyone else at gun point to be slaves along with you as you imagine yourself righteous for doing so!

    "If you wish to keep slaves, you must have all kinds of guards. The cheapest way to have guards is to have the slaves to pay taxes to finance their own guards. To fool the slaves, you tell them that they are not slaves and that they have freedom. You tell them that they need law and order to protect them from bad slaves, then you tell them to elect a government. Give them freedom to vote and they will vote for their own guards and pay their salary. They will then believe they are free persons. Then give them money to earn, count and spend and they will be too busy to notice the slavery they are in."

    – Alexander Warbucks

  6. Trump didnt steal anything.The money was held up because of the lawsuit.The NY AG made many false claims and wanted statutory penalties levied against Trump. The judge didnt levy any

  7. I have a few Republican friends who until now, I could have political conversations about. I stopped talking to them because of the mental gymnastics going on right now, ala sticking their head in the sand, with ear plugs and headphones on…

  8. WHITE SUPREMACY! This is the only reason Trump receives such huge support from his base. His base are white people who have seen the horror story propaganda of the Alt.Right on the internet of the "Great Replacement Theory." That being the theory that the world's non-whites are conspiring to rid the world of all white people. Trump came down that elevator in Trump Tower in 2015 making a blatant racist demagogue speech that Mexicans are all rapists, murderers, gang members and illegal drug traffickers. That statement alone by a world famous businessmen gave respect to open racism once again becoming fashionable in America. Trump's open racism then emboldened white America with its perpetual undercurrent of white supremacist sentiments long suppressed by the success of the Civil Rights movement–to be openly displayed again. Trump immediately became a racist and fascist cult leader to which millions of America's bigots could identify with as the man who will "make America great again" by making America white again. Again, WHITE SUPREMACY is the only reason the base is so blindly loyal to Trump–the most evil man to ever become US President. Therefore, Trump's supporters are all very evil people who live among us loving and civilized people. They are a menace to civilized society.

  9. They don't care, they'd do it too, that's why, but God forbid their opponents do it. It's all Narcissism at the end of the day.

  10. I mean Trump showed how much everyone sucks. All the tilts towards tribalism, thinking you know better that people, Putting people in box and writing them off as non-human.

    Left or Right we are all animalistic beast at the end of the day.

  11. I would argue that, in a very real sense, the radical right is, quite literally, "less than human". The critical point is the question of what it is that makes us "human". Biological definitions aside, what most people would list in response to that question is a list of "human" virtues, usually including an inbuilt tendency to cooperate, a tendency to empathize with others, a tendency to spontaneously offer aid when it's obviously needed, and so on.

    And for every one of those traits, the radical right not only consistently exhibits diametrically opposed behavior, they very aggressively suppress and demonize these virtues, especially the ones that are the foundation of human society and culture, as if they were pathologies!

    Their core beliefs are so deeply pathological and diametrically opposed to healthy human interactions and society that it would be impossible for any nation that followed them to long exist. They stronger they grow, the faster and more thoroughly they destroy everything around them. In the (profoundly oxymoronic) name of "conservatism" the environment is being destroyed at warp speed. The political system, the media, the social structure, the educational system and just about everything else, all being destroyed at warp speed with one single exception: the only thing that "conservatism" is actually concerned with conserving is the massive inequity in the distribution of wealth (in fact they are doing all in their power to increase it!).

    The radical right is, quite literally, "less than human" if "human" has any meaning at all. Supporting that is the observation that they consider "humanism" to be a pathology, just as them do "socialism", "communism" and any "ism" based on a positive human trait.

  12. Pedofile Pakman lying to his audience again. No judge or authority has charged Trump with stealing from Veterans.

    In fact, he raised $5,000,000 for them. The $2m settlement was for him not paying $4m in legal fees to fight the charges. Needless to say, Veterans came out millions in the positive.

    It's strange how pedofile Pakman fans don't support raising funds for Veterans. Very sad, very hateful– not surprising at all. The left Demonrats need to be exterminated.

  13. Trump supporters need to live in a tyranny . Somebody needs to do all their thinking for them otherwise they'd starve. Trolls / Bots can now go ape .

  14. My father, and all of his side of the family are hard core Trumpist. To the point that I can’t talk to them anymore. The have no education, will believe anyone who ‘ hates the right people”, Jews blacks gays Hispanics etc, They never had an alleged leader to validate this insanity.,but now all bets are off. It’s beyond disturbing.

  15. Right wingers are less than human. Much like a demon they simply posses a human body and that is where any resemblance to humanity stops. They don't hold any human values, they don't hold any societal values, they don't hold any kind of positive belief system. They are not worthy of consideration as people. They traded that in.

  16. Just like TYT, David Pakman gets preferential treatment from his YouTube handlers.
    Folks need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

  17. David Pakman can't survive on objective journalistic integrity alone. He would be ruined.

    Blanketed attacks on Trump and his supporters is a sign of desperation.

  18. I will make it simple Democrats are fighting white supremacists aka Republicans. So if you believe in Lincoln's constitution your dem .If you believe in constitution as written your white supremacists.

  19. I, too, have developed a virulent hatred of Trumpists, to the point that I finally understand the Civil War phenomenon of brothers killing brothers.

  20. Remember the veteran who wanted to shoot other veterans for expressing free speech while simultaneously yelling about him fighting for the freedom of speech? Yeah, Trump supporters are hopeless.

  21. Why would anyone walk around with a ridiculous political hat 3 years after an election??
    Trumpsupporters should have some Covfefe and STFU!
    LMFAO

  22. My grandfather was a major conservative… until Trump started running. He didn't like Hilary (neither do I, but I voted for her), but he has steam-coming-out-of-the-ears hate for Trump. I've heard him flip on a few issues. Gun violence, he was pro gun now he wants gun control. Climate change, he's now a believer where before he didn't. Gay marriage, he used to see homosexuals as "filthy queers," and now he realizes they are born gay and should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit. It was all almost a neck-snapping fast change.

  23. These people i know are beyond help, i know one that has gone from supporting Bernie to spout the same Venezuela shit and label him communist and yet he still has student debt but thinks yelling MAGA will help him somehow.

  24. Yet we have data showing that it's democrats who are doing the mental gymnastics and it's wearing on their fragile minds.

    https://www.axios.com/axios-hbo-poll-politics-democrats-mad-c78f29c5-4c79-448e-8c7c-7d648f88a832.html

  25. I agree with the radical guy. They are a level of stupid and/or intentionally and proudly ignorant that I do not respect them as human beings.
    They don't respect a much wider group of people as humans (immigrants, LGBTQ, middle Easterners, etc), so I feel no guilt in thinking of the diehard and hypocritical Right as less than human.

  26. There are still too many idiots that are Democrats, this video proves the point. Voted Democrat for 21 years, but never again will I support a party of morons that is now the Democratic Party.

  27. This site must be produced by the Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels school of Journalism. It proves that if you lie to the gullible long enough they will believe anything. Democrat now mean stupid idiot.

  28. I don't regard The Right has human being either. I haven't done so for years. They are entities, nothing more. They are to be despised, belittled, treated with scorn and contempt. Their status is that of bacteria.

  29. My response to trump supporters who attempt to bring up the topic: “Sorry, I don’t waste my time debating ignorance.”

  30. I tried listening to some right-wing radio on the way home today. They 100% think Trump did nothing wrong. I can't believe a pathetic man like this is the one that is dividing us.

  31. What kills me is these crybaby[Trump] supporters will have the nerve to call a person bias and stupid. You can give them facts & resources to check those facts but it never matters cause you're wrong and unamerican.

  32. Well, even Cenk Uygur regularly refers to Republicans as monsters… the thing is to judge each slight objectively.
    Are poor people fleeing violence to come to the US and hope for a safe life for their children criminals ? Are the people who inhabit Facebook pages where they post fantasies about shooting defenceless undocumented immigrants and raping female congresspeople who defend the immigrants… are these Facebook members monsters ?

  33. Does anyone remember that old horror movie called the faculty?
    There were mind-altering parasites infecting people and they all followed instructions from the queen parasite.
    That's what I feel like is happening when I watch the Trump Administration and its supporters. Obviously not literally, but I'm seeing people I grew up with, people I went to school with, people I used to respect and even people in the public eye like celebrities are falling for this Trump cult nonsense. It's just so bizarre.
    They refused to see logic or reason at all they can do is spout conspiracy theory BS.

  34. trump's followers identify with nis criminality. There is no mental gymnastics involved. Wanna-Be criminality combined with ignorance and a lack of education…….this is why Republicans de-fund public education.

  35. I agree David unfortunately Trump supporters have an IQ under 100
    Or it's criminal thinking like this guy saying they steal money from his social security check where is it in the SSI check it's not the same thing you're getting monthly income and you always get it on the day they promised it to you Ukraine didn't get their money weather in the middle of the war in need of firearms we're talking about a whole country not one person people could have lost their lives thousands of people all because Donald Trump was thinking about his self with our money Donald Trump didn't give a f*** about your social security check Donald Trump don't give a f*** about nobody but Donald Trump why do you think he'd give the rich people and tax break because of himself so he can save tax money you didn't give a fuk about you or your tax money Donald Trump thinks and nobody but himself I will guarantee you that man has never handed anybody homeless a dollar I'll guarantee you he has never went out of his way to help anybody whether it be big or small Donald Trump does not care about people he does not care about America Donald Trump is corrupt he needs to be removed and put in prison

  36. Sorry but I have to turn all of this off periodically because it makes me laugh so hard I ____. You fill in the blank. The current POTUS is the ultimate Gong Show.

  37. Well.. I've been saying that I used t be a gun advocate, but the all of the idiotic arguments that the gun nuts changed my feelings about guns. Not to mention the corrupt influence the NRA has on/with the GOP.. Of course I still believe I'm a centrist, it's just that both the Republicans and Democrats have move further right.. I haven't moved and now I'm a far leftist.. Ya know why Hilairy lost… Bc the right thinks she's a Democrat and the left thinks she's a Republican..

  38. I supposed in that case, I am radicalized to the core. Everything the right wing says annoys the hell out of me. I've always been like that – guess I was radicalized before the term became fancy.

  39. I was a Republican until 9/11. I began to see the curtain open. It was one of the most depressing experience. My worldview alter in a way that I began to see my government was corrupt and I didn’t feel safe anymore. It was liberating. Now over a decade later I get more angry about the spreading of propaganda and lies from politicians and Fox News. This is not acceptable. I trusted my government but they didn’t deserve it. We all need to be aware or we can become an authoritarian government. We need to see Trump as he is. A con man.

  40. vs the mental gymnastics of leftists?
    "an amoeba on Mars is life! but a kid about to be born on this planet is not.."
    "anyone who calls themselves a woman is obviously female regardless of whether they have a prostate or not"
    "censoring anything we call 'hate speech' ..isn't censorship.. or tyrannical"
    "open borders are awesome but I refuse to house and feed the homeless or any of the illegals invading our border at my house"
    "communism is a valid ideology because I can't read a history book"
    "I hate the police but the police should be the only ones with guns"
    "America sucks in spite of having the best record of equal opportunity, a civil war where hundreds of thousands of Americans died to save those in bondage, a quality of life better than most of the planet, having served as the arsenal of Democracy in multiple world wars while refusing to take over conquered areas permanently, spent time and money rebuilding the vanquished so they could self govern, BEAT COMMUNISM, sent humans to the freaking moon, created computers.. the internet.. and the best document detailing individual freedoms and righteous self government ever created in human history. But America sucks."
    "Christianity sucks but a head lopping Islamic Death Cult that abuses women and gays is awesome."
    "Climate Change is totally real and we're all gonna fry and the icecaps are going to melt and the water levels will rise and the beaches will be flooded because rich people who buy beach front property and fly around in exhaust spewing private jets tell me so, even as I refuse to make a difference by living more simply than the Amish."
    "Hillary has a 30 year trail of corruption, treason, and dead bodies behind her so thick that the Clintons are a living meme, but Trump is a criminal because CNN said he's racist and chose to fight a russia collusion hoax and had a phone call with Ukraine."
    "Epstein died of natural causes"

    lol! There's some mental gymnastics for you.

  41. That example isn't much in the way of mental gymnastics at all. If you start with the premise that ALL politicians are morally bankrupt self-serving criminals who break their own laws and are out to take away everything you work hard for, then it's just a question of picking the criminal who will at least do all those bad things for a benefit that goes in your own direction. That's the closest I can come to deciphering the mentality of #45's supporters.

  42. In the various stages of development which the struggle of working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.
    Bernie Sanders ?

  43. As far as the reactionary radicalization to the left goes? That dehumanization of people that demonize me?

    I'm consciously making an effort to remember that my fellow Americans are still human beings that are simply politically opposed to me while still being on the same team/country/world.
    But I can tell you that the concept was effortless ten years ago, when trolling wasn't the mainstream political tactic of today. When it appeared that the right had some form of that concept as well.

    Oh well, they're only human, after all.

  44. I'm not a liberal,but…. I have always,and always will,see or view conservatives as inferior and less than humans,they're totally worthless!!!!

  45. I would like to know if any one else worries that another "civil" war may break out between Trumpists and non-trumpist. Both sides seem to think the other is bat -poop crazy and there is no medium middle. Does anyone else worry about this tearing apart America? Actually having states cedede from each other? Have people who are gun-crazy actually start killing people who don't have guns and threatening them with "It's our way or the highway!" I can't see Dems doing this to Republicans but I can sure see it the other way around. Anyone elses opinion? I am interested!!!

  46. Trump supporters love shit… They love to eat shit…. They love to watch shit…. They love to listen to shit…… Just like pigs….. They are also fat and pink like pigs too.

  47. re: the right pushing people left.

    I'm surprised you haven't realised this is possible. What do you think ANTIFA and other obnoxious left wing protestors have been doing for YEARS?

    Pushing people right!!

    The left needs to call these people out constantly. The left need to stop being so fucking intolerant of anyone who even slightly disagrees with them.

    Or… continue doing what you've been doing. It'll make my 3 different bets much safer by ensuring a 2nd Trump term.

    Fuck it, I might even make a bet for Don Jr 2024

  48. I'm like that poster who says he's been radicalized on the right. I used to be a left leaning moderate, Trump and his supporters have turned me into a full fledged liberal.

  49. Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. – Mark Twain

    This is why I don't waste any more time trying to change the mind of a trump cultist. I just block their stupid post so I don't have to see it and go about my day.

  50. The only reason left for anyone to support trump is his racist and hateful immigration policy. He has failed at everything else and the "economy" is just a bulllshit excuse.

  51. Why would ANYONE with a working brain support Trump whose embarrassing actions and words, thinly veiled threats, low intelligence, puffed up ego, outright criminal acts and continuous lying is all he knows? An intelligent person wouldn't. Period.

  52. Watch the doc called The Brainwashing of My Father. It's about a man who was a Kennedy Democrat who started listening to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and turned into someone just like them.

  53. I watched the cnn interview and it was astounding.you could see that they were struggling to justify what trump does cos they make no sense,and want to vote for him no matter what and would be outraged if another party had done what trump did.these people chant "usa usa " then they let trump sell their country down the river.

  54. I say never defend anyone but yourself because you never know where the other person you are defending has been. Just look at Tramp 🤬😤

  55. It's a Stockholm .. Just like people who are obsessed with brands such as Apple.. Even if something is clearly a rip off or inferior.. They still accept the outcome

  56. Funny part is this is exactly what I'm dealing with got friends who all surprised me to my dismay but they all support trump, and I'm dealing with the mental gymnastics trying to talk sense into them.

  57. With their recent losses in the heart of the maga red states, it's clear the GOP are in trouble. Perhaps this circus of the absurd they've created is finally backfiring on them. The GOP have been playing this way for decades. The Trump phenomenon was an inevitable outcome of "alternative facts" far right quackery the GOP have been pushing to stir up a mass of uneducated people while the gop does their corporate benefactors bidding of destroying the new deal.

  58. The radicalisation you describe can be explained fully if you study Hegel's master-slave dialectic from the Phenomenology of Spirit.

  59. Mental gymnastics, moral gymnastics, and the energy they expend defending an unregistered sex offender with a porn star wife. Truly sad. 😔

  60. you can make a trumper say obama just mention the 22 trillion dollar national debt crisis, try it just comment about the debt and the spout obama did it they are delusional

  61. The scary thing to me is that Trump’s supporters do the same thing that religious cult members do. The mental gymnastics it takes to remain in a cult is so similar to Trump’s cult base. No amount of good logic or real facts can shake their blinded belief in their leader! The only thing that causes a cult member to come out of their stupor is a crisis of conscience. Hopefully these impeachment inquiries will help some Trumpsters to have a crisis of conscience once they realize that Donald Trump has been breaking constitutional laws!

  62. Flat-earthers all of them. Ultimately they call YOU out as biased. It's actually a psychological issue related to shocking the brain. It really is a defense mechanism up there with "fight or flee".

  63. They’re so fanatical it’s not even worth the time. But they’re in the minority. Get out there and vote, people. Make it count.

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